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welcome to tales from the rabbit hole

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I'm your host Mick West my guest today

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all the way from Sweden is Rory Rory is

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a deep bunker of the Flat Earth he's

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also someone who has been on a very

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interesting journey through his life

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both physically and spiritually and he's

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person who also believes in less things

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than he used to all this will be

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explained when we talked to her Rory

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Rory welcome to tales from the rabbit

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hole thank you very much for being here

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yeah thanks man I've known you on meta

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bunk for a while a few years and I think

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you kind of originally came in as a flat

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earth debunk oh is that right I was a

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fledgling plateau at the bunker but also

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kind of learning about the debunks yeah

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you you've you've done a lot of Flat

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Earth debunking I must say I was looking

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at your YouTube channel and you had like

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you know kind of a big flurry of Plus of

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debunking videos like over about the

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last year kind of ending around all

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right around three months ago yeah what

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kind of led up to your you're interested

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in in Flat Earth Flat Earth well okay so

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the the youth videos were really just I

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started on the day after Christmas last

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year and then I think I stopped must

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have been around the end of April so it

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was about a number to the end of March

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actually so it was about three months

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kind of intensely yeah how did I get

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into Flat Earth what's under Christmas

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yeah lived to regret it ever since

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but those conversations on meta bunk at

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the minute about how YouTube promotes

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videos and if you if you start with a

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mild conspiracy theory video it will

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kind of promote more extreme versions

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and I think that's how it started for me

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I wasn't particularly interested in

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conspiracy theories but I was I'd read a

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Jon Ronson book where he mentions David

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Icke and I wanted to see the original

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day like video and suddenly this Flat

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Earth video pops up on the side Eric

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pays 200 proofs

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so I think well okay that's it I'll

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click on that and that's what it started

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growing that was the beginning

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yeah Dubey he's doing proof sir

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it's an interesting strategy I think the

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flux of the staff is giving you 200

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proofs that the earth isn't last when

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really you don't you should need one

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really if there's one proof

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yeah the earth is flat no it was I mean

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I guess in comparison to yourself I

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guess the first time you saw flatter if

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you thought what the hell is this like

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this is obviously wrong and I think

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there was something about as interesting

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because I have that some sort of ability

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to maybe sympathisers where they're

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coming from because I remember watching

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that first Eric to be video not really

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knowing much about the shape of the

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earth and the mathematics involved and

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for the first couple of minutes I was

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like what the hell like when he says

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something well the horizon always rises

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to eye level well I'd never looked at

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that so it was one of those moments I

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thought oh bloody hell like he's showing

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these images it oh it seems to be right

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but then I took about two minutes to

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researcher and realize are okay we can

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very easily show that the things that

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he's doing is wrong but I had I had

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about two minutes of thinking of you

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know I'll I don't know if you had a

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moment where you I have don't know what

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reality is I have moments sometimes when

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something when I'm trying to work

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something out mathematically and I do

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all the math and I get the answer and

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the answer is like it proves like the

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conspiracy theory or whatever it is I

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think what this possibly be true yes I

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recheck it and then sometimes it's still

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true and I invite banging my headache

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and I'm thinking what what's going on

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here like have I been wrong all this

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time about this this one thing you know

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is is it's actually flat of you know no

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obviously not

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yeah is could this actually be a flying

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saucer or something like that then

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eventually you do the math and correctly

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and you figure out what the mistake was

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but yeah I didn't I did actually

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occasionally have these moments of

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is this disconcerting when you you don't

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immediately have the answer for

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something it's it's interesting I still

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see it in myself every now again I think

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it's really nice that someone like

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yourself and for me it's been good to to

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at least have that even for a split

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second because it gives some kind of

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sympathy and understanding of where

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people are coming from and yeah I can

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okay good I could watch a thousand hours

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of incredible footage from space but

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then to see one little grit oh wait a

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minute maybe it is all fake yeah so you

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know one of my theories is that there's

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that that it's almost like a fork in the

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road in the brain and the brain will run

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in one direction or the other and so

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even though we can experience that

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moment we're able to pull it back and

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say okay well let's just remember that

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there's this entire vast mountain of

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evidence and there's one tiny little

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thing but it's so interesting to be able

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to see from the inside of a human brain

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and say wow I can see how and now

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different way of thinking would run with

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that in a hole of a direction so it's

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nice to have that yeah it is I think

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like if you're a a real debunk or a real

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scientist then you really need to you

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know be open to the possibility that you

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might be wrong about everything

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you know obviously you have this very

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strong you know set of evidence that

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shows you that yet the world the

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scientific world as we believe it is

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yeah it's described by science but

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science is always discovering new things

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and even though it's fairly unlikely

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that you personally are going to be

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discovering that new thing I think it's

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always always good to be open to the

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possibility basically has like you say

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it gives you perspective into the minds

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of other people when they yeah yeah

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accepting these new things yeah that's

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it maybe I see some people they have no

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hook on the debunking site they can't

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possibly imagine how someone could think

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that way and I think I say I never went

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very far with it but I couldn't see how

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they would think that way especially

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without the background and the

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understanding

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I can imagine right now there are

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conspiracy theorists that jumping up and

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down saying hey requests admits that

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there is a possibility that it may be

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wrong about everything there is there is

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a possibility that I may roam at

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everything I just haven't yet seen the

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evidence and I do

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I just certainly make mistakes in my

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mathematics from time to time and doing

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some math at the moment and to figure

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out gimbal lock for UFO videos it's

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making my head hurt because of stuff

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that I haven't really thought about for

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a long time so there's plenty of room

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for errors when you're dealing with

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things that you're you feel like you

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should know how to work stuff out but

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you're not actually yeah and a real

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expert at it I think a lot of people

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overestimate their ability to figure

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things out it was a name for that there

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certainly is yeah Dunning Kruger I'm

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gonna name it name the unnameable it's

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the idea that the lower your ability is

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yeah your ability like your like the

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lower your ability is with something the

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less able you are to accurately assess

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your own yes

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it's often the higher the ability the

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the more likely to underestimate yes how

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smart you are how good you are at

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something yeah and this is a thinker

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journey a lot of people go through in a

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lot of fields I talked about it with

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programming is that when you start off

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computer programming you don't know

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anything at first then you know a little

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bit of stuff and you think you know

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everything you think you there's nothing

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else to learn about programming this is

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something all programmers go through and

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then you realize there's all this stuff

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you've no idea and especially you get to

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build up and build up and eventually

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figure stuff out but you always know

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that stuff you don't know and then the

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more you know the more so you're saying

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that you you know you can appreciate

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more than most people by you know what's

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going on in the minds of some conspiracy

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theories or believers in weird things

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and I was just reading your essay

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my brief flirtation with the rabbit hole

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that you posted on bank it was a very

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interesting thing and it basically

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details your history with mm-hmm

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cave your spiritual history and your

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your history with believing in strange

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things so you say when you were 19 you

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had a mystical experience you had five

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hits of acid and you think you can trace

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that back to being in some ways the the

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start of your you know your kind of

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mystical journey you're a spiritual

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journey yeah it could be it's it's

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always hard to put for me it's hard to

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put my finger on it I think even I could

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look back to being even eight nine ten

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years old and realizing you know that I

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used to think about a lot of things that

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okay now I've talked to other people

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they didn't think about those things

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that that it's just the idea of Who am I

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really you know am i this physical body

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what would happen if this physical body

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cease to exist and I remember having

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those thoughts at probably around nine

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years old so and then there's always the

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idea like did my inclinations of my mind

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lead me to take five hits of LSD or did

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five hit self as they open my mind in a

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certain way but I think it may have been

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somewhat pivotal it was now just reading

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about acid trips today yesterday I'm the

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idea of the ego dissolution or a lot of

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people will call will say something like

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that can be one of the most profound

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important spiritual experiences there a

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lot of their lives and I don't know it

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was a wild night though that's for sure

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yeah I could imagine well I can't

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imagine had never taken acid myself

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which have you not those things anymore

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but it was a bit much for a 19 year old

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to be honest yeah I could imagine on

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that imagine 19 year olds very can have

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an impressionable age in a way I

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remember when I was 19 at college I was

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certainly much more open to new things

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and I didn't have really any basis

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factor a frame of reference one year

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when you

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yeah so so then he said yeah a year

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later you began your traveling life did

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yeah what what was that about I'm you

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just did you just leave home and just

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start to travel the world yeah I was

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very living in Leeds quite dissatisfied

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with my situation nothing happening 20

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years old and she's just out of the

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blood never actually been out of England

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I mean just on a whim bought a plane

273
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:33,199
ticket to New York and I guess that yeah

274
00:11:39,139 --> 00:11:35,610
it was a good

275
00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:39,149
yeah lots of mad times but um yeah it

276
00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:40,680
was a start of something I think I went

277
00:11:44,929 --> 00:11:42,300
for a month and after a month realized

278
00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:44,939
well you know living in a city in

279
00:11:48,769 --> 00:11:46,110
England will always be a positive

280
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:48,779
possibility so I ended up staying in the

281
00:11:53,179 --> 00:11:51,569
US for about four years and lived in

282
00:11:56,059 --> 00:11:53,189
places like New York Charlottesville

283
00:11:58,489 --> 00:11:56,069
Virginia Colorado Arizona Tombstone

284
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:58,499
Arizona actually I worked as a cowboy

285
00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:01,680
there when spending spend a couple of

286
00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:03,809
years actually hitchhiking around the US

287
00:12:10,179 --> 00:12:05,870
and Mexico

288
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:10,189
so yeah this took me till about 24 and

289
00:12:15,019 --> 00:12:13,170
that was really when my you touched on

290
00:12:17,299 --> 00:12:15,029
this spiritual journey that I mentioned

291
00:12:19,610 --> 00:12:17,309
that kind of began consciously when I

292
00:12:24,350 --> 00:12:19,620
was about 23 so the last year of those

293
00:12:26,929 --> 00:12:24,360
travels was like well yeah my spiritual

294
00:12:29,329 --> 00:12:26,939
journey is a yes he spent three years

295
00:12:31,189 --> 00:12:29,339
just kind of having fun and then was

296
00:12:35,090 --> 00:12:31,199
there is something have led you to

297
00:12:37,639 --> 00:12:35,100
transition to being more spiritual

298
00:12:39,410 --> 00:12:37,649
I think so looking back in retrospect I

299
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:39,420
would say there was I would say I think

300
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:40,980
the way you put it there three years of

301
00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:43,050
having fun there's a good way to put it

302
00:12:48,619 --> 00:12:46,740
and I think it was a fun that evolved

303
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:48,629
and changed over the time so it was

304
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:50,850
originally was just the standard thing I

305
00:12:57,410 --> 00:12:53,040
was in new hostels and what if I go to a

306
00:13:00,199 --> 00:12:57,420
bar talk crap with people from South

307
00:13:01,910 --> 00:13:00,209
Africa or Australia and then and then

308
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:01,920
that became satisfying so I wanted

309
00:13:06,410 --> 00:13:03,959
something more and then I worked in a

310
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,420
small town in a restaurant kind of away

311
00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:08,399
from the whole travelers scene then that

312
00:13:12,770 --> 00:13:11,550
became too satisfying so I wanted

313
00:13:15,050 --> 00:13:12,780
a bit more adventure with the

314
00:13:15,860 --> 00:13:15,060
hitchhiking and I think eventually I

315
00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:15,870
just

316
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:17,940
even though experienced some incredible

317
00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:21,060
things and wonderful highs and a lot of

318
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:23,670
visited so many national parks hiked a

319
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:25,730
lot really got into camping and nature

320
00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:28,290
and a level of freedom that was you know

321
00:13:32,570 --> 00:13:30,660
really beyond anything that I'd imagined

322
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:32,580
I think eventually that became

323
00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:36,210
dissatisfying as well and so I mean I

324
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:38,220
think probably even four years before

325
00:13:41,510 --> 00:13:39,480
that there was something in my life that

326
00:13:43,090 --> 00:13:41,520
was looking for something and I would

327
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:43,100
say it was something that felt real

328
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:45,690
something that would feel real yeah and

329
00:13:50,660 --> 00:13:47,850
everything I try may feel real for a

330
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:50,670
week or a month oh yeah but eventually I

331
00:13:55,970 --> 00:13:54,510
just kind of ran out of options and as

332
00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:55,980
it happened a few times when I'd reached

333
00:14:00,020 --> 00:13:57,570
that place I said well I'll just go home

334
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:00,030
to England and get a job and a

335
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:02,850
girlfriend and buy a house and live for

336
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:07,610
X number of decades and then I kind of

337
00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:11,010
and then it was a bit like the it's

338
00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:12,360
worth to put these words on it but the

339
00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:14,790
spirituality the mystical experiences

340
00:14:21,020 --> 00:14:17,030
kind of way they found me

341
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:21,030
so I mean this is the story that I've

342
00:14:24,380 --> 00:14:22,530
told myself or whether it's true or not

343
00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:24,390
I don't know but it was I feel like it

344
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:26,820
was that process of always reaching a

345
00:14:30,850 --> 00:14:29,130
place of dissatisfaction and then event

346
00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:30,860
you finally just running out of ideas

347
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:33,420
that I really literally couldn't think

348
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:36,000
of anything else other than to just give

349
00:14:41,270 --> 00:14:38,370
up and become like a normal person Tai

350
00:14:43,340 --> 00:14:41,280
and things like that yeah I mean yeah

351
00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:43,350
out of the blue out of the blue

352
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:44,940
something happened yeah there's some

353
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:48,210
kind of mind altering non-drug

354
00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:51,480
drug-induced experience that felt very

355
00:14:57,950 --> 00:14:55,830
very real several experiences like that

356
00:15:01,190 --> 00:14:57,960
actually and then then I started meeting

357
00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:01,200
some spiritual teachers it was all very

358
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:04,500
spontaneous unfolding I was still

359
00:15:11,060 --> 00:15:07,170
hitchhiking kind of almost penniless

360
00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:11,070
really and yeah it was a good good few

361
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:14,070
years that I went on that I had to

362
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:15,690
explain really had to describe in a

363
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:18,360
nutshell ya know I mean it seems like

364
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:20,850
you packed a lot into a relatively short

365
00:15:24,570 --> 00:15:22,560
space of time I was just making video

366
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:24,580
games back my early factors

367
00:15:30,570 --> 00:15:27,060
the stuck in a dark room in Manchester

368
00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:30,580
was you were gallivanting around the

369
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:34,649
world you're reaping the fruits now

370
00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:39,279
resting up by Laurel thing yes nothing

371
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:43,300
wrong gallivanting so so you early on in

372
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:45,610
your life in your twenties during this

373
00:15:52,199 --> 00:15:48,610
mystical period you had some experiences

374
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:52,209
with I guess what I would call it in a

375
00:15:58,380 --> 00:15:55,630
way almost supernatural experiences that

376
00:16:02,850 --> 00:15:58,390
type of things that aren't explainable

377
00:16:04,139 --> 00:16:02,860
by modern science and you know these

378
00:16:07,769 --> 00:16:04,149
these are things that kind of convinced

379
00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:07,779
you that there was there was more to the

380
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:10,060
world than there appeared or how do you

381
00:16:16,319 --> 00:16:13,209
always gonna felt that way I probably

382
00:16:18,139 --> 00:16:16,329
always felt that there was mmm or hoped

383
00:16:22,139 --> 00:16:18,149
maybe that there was more to life than

384
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:22,149
was being presented I think and probably

385
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:25,450
felt it as well and then probably eating

386
00:16:31,079 --> 00:16:29,440
all that LSD was that because I really

387
00:16:33,210 --> 00:16:31,089
say you haven't done that but I think

388
00:16:35,130 --> 00:16:33,220
anyone who has will say well it feels

389
00:16:38,370 --> 00:16:35,140
like the most real thing ever

390
00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:38,380
yeah actually and the fact that the

391
00:16:41,790 --> 00:16:40,300
people's experiences when I would say

392
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:41,800
they were if it's done in them what I

393
00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:44,320
would call the right way there's so much

394
00:16:47,579 --> 00:16:46,300
similarity I can I can definitely

395
00:16:48,930 --> 00:16:47,589
question that and I'm quite happy to

396
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:48,940
dismiss all that because it's

397
00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:51,970
drug-induced but when I would say I know

398
00:16:55,699 --> 00:16:53,260
what you're saying things that aren't

399
00:17:00,720 --> 00:16:55,709
explained by modern science maybe like

400
00:17:02,699 --> 00:17:00,730
spiritual healing or telepathy things in

401
00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:02,709
but in those lines but I think the

402
00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:04,300
things that really convinced me were

403
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:06,520
more like what I would term the mystical

404
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:10,750
experiences so something that yeah it's

405
00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:12,160
usually very hard to put into words but

406
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,470
something that felt there was beyond the

407
00:17:22,250 --> 00:17:16,720
physical realm experienced in quite a

408
00:17:25,049 --> 00:17:22,260
conscious calm calm way where I was

409
00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:25,059
different what I am now you know

410
00:17:31,890 --> 00:17:29,260
something very much bigger deeper people

411
00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:31,900
would call it otherworldly are other

412
00:17:36,659 --> 00:17:34,679
dimensionally

413
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:36,669
difficult to put into us I think those

414
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:40,570
experiences because they were internal

415
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:44,289
and non drug-induced and not even

416
00:17:49,770 --> 00:17:48,010
actually not even some spiritual

417
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:49,780
practices a lot of people do now again I

418
00:17:54,299 --> 00:17:51,910
like akin to hyperventilating for

419
00:17:56,190 --> 00:17:54,309
example holotropic booing they call it

420
00:17:58,909 --> 00:17:56,200
so it wasn't anything like that it was

421
00:18:02,520 --> 00:17:58,919
just a very spontaneous natural like

422
00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:02,530
experience this is something like just a

423
00:18:06,299 --> 00:18:04,630
personal thing for you that you perhaps

424
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:06,309
couldn't you know obviously demonstrate

425
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,010
to other people that was having yeah for

426
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:11,919
you it it really revealed that there was

427
00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:15,520
you know something more that's what it

428
00:18:21,450 --> 00:18:19,140
seems like I'm always skeptical about

429
00:18:24,299 --> 00:18:21,460
it's been 20 years and it's still been

430
00:18:26,399 --> 00:18:24,309
impossible to deny any of those things

431
00:18:28,380 --> 00:18:26,409
that happens there was something

432
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:28,390
interesting that you wrote about one of

433
00:18:32,130 --> 00:18:29,710
your teachers or one of the guys you

434
00:18:33,630 --> 00:18:32,140
were talking with he told you that if

435
00:18:35,779 --> 00:18:33,640
you practice certain things for long

436
00:18:39,630 --> 00:18:35,789
enough certain effects would take place

437
00:18:41,820 --> 00:18:39,640
mhm and you found that they did and I

438
00:18:46,049 --> 00:18:41,830
found this very interesting because you

439
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:46,059
know Nathan Thompson yeah it's the flat

440
00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:48,250
earther he has a very similar story to

441
00:18:53,580 --> 00:18:51,340
you that's he he said he had a you know

442
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:53,590
a kind of a guru type guy who told him

443
00:18:59,720 --> 00:18:56,080
that if he memorized the periodic table

444
00:19:05,010 --> 00:18:59,730
he would grow two inches which

445
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:05,020
apparently so he did but I I'm assuming

446
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:06,970
that that wasn't the exact type of thing

447
00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:09,039
that you you were doing back then

448
00:19:13,409 --> 00:19:10,630
what were the the things that you

449
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:13,419
practice yeah I think I think the things

450
00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:15,010
I would be talking about were more about

451
00:19:20,850 --> 00:19:18,190
say developing a sense of peace or joy

452
00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:20,860
or awareness way presence or so really

453
00:19:25,649 --> 00:19:22,960
yeah wasn't anything it's kind of like

454
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:25,659
if you meditate a bunch if you learn to

455
00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:28,710
do this would that teach I was doing

456
00:19:34,860 --> 00:19:32,049
what we would call wilderness solos or

457
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:34,870
vision quests which is kind of a

458
00:19:39,870 --> 00:19:36,970
prolonged period of a lone time in

459
00:19:43,860 --> 00:19:39,880
nature whereas the first one was for six

460
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:43,870
days that was on a beach in Mexico with

461
00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:46,720
nothing to do so there'll be no reading

462
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:47,350
no right

463
00:19:53,370 --> 00:19:50,890
no cooking no fires no walking around it

464
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:53,380
kind of make a little circle and just

465
00:20:00,090 --> 00:19:56,110
sit in it do the old contemplate the

466
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:00,100
navel kind of thing what to see what

467
00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:01,930
happens really it's a very desert it's a

468
00:20:06,540 --> 00:20:03,190
way to be without any kind of

469
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:06,550
distraction so that a person can go yeah

470
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:08,530
the idea is to be inside themselves or

471
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:10,690
purely with themselves which is

472
00:20:14,550 --> 00:20:13,210
something I guess to look around the

473
00:20:18,140 --> 00:20:14,560
world is something probably hardly

474
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:18,150
anyone's done as a percentage to spend

475
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:22,150
even a day truly with their own being if

476
00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:26,410
I could use that word so and then I did

477
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,320
one for 28 days that was up a mountain

478
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:31,840
in Colorado so I like to put that to

479
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:34,450
skeptics of spirituality so well okay

480
00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:36,850
just go sit under a tree for 20 days see

481
00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:39,880
what happens you know it is always it's

482
00:20:43,620 --> 00:20:42,040
not a thing that science can how can you

483
00:20:46,350 --> 00:20:43,630
take that to a laboratory you know how

484
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:46,360
can you prove that to some like is it

485
00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:48,460
demonstrably and repeatable well I say

486
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:50,230
okay well yeah it goes sundry on tree

487
00:20:54,660 --> 00:20:51,310
and see what happens

488
00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:54,670
sorry not many people yeah I think my

489
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:56,470
wife would be happy with me going

490
00:21:00,420 --> 00:20:58,450
sitting under a tree for 28 days

491
00:21:01,860 --> 00:21:00,430
I couldn't theoretically do it do it

492
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:01,870
here because we have you know trees our

493
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:02,950
back and there's not a lot of people

494
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:05,560
around so if I just tell my wife not to

495
00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:11,710
talk to me for the next 28 days yeah I

496
00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:13,630
think people don't do it there because

497
00:21:22,170 --> 00:21:20,520
expensive proposition and in in terms of

498
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:22,180
things you have to give up like a lot of

499
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:24,460
people you know they what they work you

500
00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:27,850
can't give it work for 28 days and you

501
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:29,140
know their relationships with other

502
00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:31,930
people this is a very hard thing to say

503
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:34,420
just suddenly stop but it's it would be

504
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:36,370
an interesting experiment I kind of wish

505
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:39,490
I go yeah the space and time of space to

506
00:21:47,420 --> 00:21:41,650
do it okay how about you could just do

507
00:21:53,310 --> 00:21:50,520
nothing the first day you can kind of

508
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:53,320
get through and then the second day it

509
00:21:57,970 --> 00:21:55,510
did for my first one it was almost

510
00:21:59,210 --> 00:21:57,980
impossibly difficult

511
00:22:01,800 --> 00:21:59,220
[Music]

512
00:22:04,890 --> 00:22:01,810
it was very the first one actually was

513
00:22:08,130 --> 00:22:04,900
more difficult than the 28-day one just

514
00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:08,140
because I always look at it and I'd

515
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:10,540
spent six weeks camping mostly alone

516
00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:13,510
before that period but I was always

517
00:22:16,830 --> 00:22:14,830
doing something you know getting

518
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:16,840
firewood made from the fire cooking that

519
00:22:22,850 --> 00:22:19,600
better and the first hour of being on

520
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:22,860
the beach with no distraction and the

521
00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:25,840
awareness that I still had six days

522
00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:28,990
coming up was infinitely more difficult

523
00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:32,200
than six weeks camping alone with doing

524
00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:34,600
stuff you know breathing journaling

525
00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:39,460
whatever so it's some yeah I don't know

526
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:41,230
if I'd like I don't know if I'd

527
00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:43,330
recommend its people if people are drawn

528
00:22:45,690 --> 00:22:43,720
to it

529
00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:45,700
it was definitely life-changing for me

530
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:48,670
perhaps more even than some of the other

531
00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:51,310
things yeah you mentioned

532
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:53,830
shortly after that that you became what

533
00:23:01,950 --> 00:22:59,440
is known as a bliss ninny glistening

534
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:01,960
alright so one thing that happens I

535
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:03,310
think to a lot of people when they get

536
00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:08,470
on the spiritual path which I don't want

537
00:23:13,650 --> 00:23:11,190
to say again like a let's say a

538
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,660
non-stimulant non non substance path

539
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:15,760
these days that everybody's doing

540
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:17,530
ayahuasca and peyote and I think that's

541
00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:21,250
something different but um I think

542
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:22,980
what's wrong

543
00:23:27,180 --> 00:23:25,210
ideally I guess we'd do something like a

544
00:23:29,580 --> 00:23:27,190
meditation retreat or we'd spend some

545
00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:29,590
time with a genuine spiritual teacher or

546
00:23:34,860 --> 00:23:31,540
a Vision Quest and we get in touch with

547
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:34,870
something very deep down oh say deep

548
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:37,210
down and I go to the heart there so get

549
00:23:42,930 --> 00:23:39,970
in touch with I say true being as as the

550
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:42,940
teachers would say higher higher power

551
00:23:47,940 --> 00:23:45,250
whatever something like that some people

552
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:47,950
call it God as a young man and I've seen

553
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:51,850
it in myself and a lot of people it

554
00:23:57,870 --> 00:23:53,250
tends to be a bit like a truck actually

555
00:24:00,810 --> 00:23:57,880
so there's an incredible high ever and

556
00:24:03,230 --> 00:24:00,820
for me it was you know a lot of ecstasy

557
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:03,240
just feeling ecstatic all the time

558
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:05,770
naturally which is really nice

559
00:24:10,170 --> 00:24:07,980
now why would anyone do these kind of

560
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:10,180
spiritual practices if there wasn't a

561
00:24:14,159 --> 00:24:12,250
little reward

562
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:14,169
and there is a reward the the ecstasy

563
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:16,330
the joy that just naturally arises so I

564
00:24:19,980 --> 00:24:17,140
can say oh wow

565
00:24:22,409 --> 00:24:19,990
I could just meditate for 10 babies as I

566
00:24:25,169 --> 00:24:22,419
did later on nothing I mean I've

567
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:25,179
ecstatically happy just breathing just

568
00:24:30,750 --> 00:24:26,710
for hours and hours it's so it's really

569
00:24:32,940 --> 00:24:30,760
wonderful but also as a young guy with

570
00:24:37,649 --> 00:24:32,950
all the psychological baggage that's

571
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:37,659
kind of still there but neglected it can

572
00:24:45,390 --> 00:24:41,289
get a little bit imbalanced people just

573
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:45,400
say I'm just gonna do this I'm just

574
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:48,010
gonna dance and hug everyone and I run

575
00:24:52,649 --> 00:24:51,010
around naked barefoot whatever kind of

576
00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:52,659
lit and living for that giving giving up

577
00:24:57,810 --> 00:24:56,140
all material interests yes yes we could

578
00:25:00,539 --> 00:24:57,820
say like having experienced the Bliss of

579
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:00,549
the soul or union with something a

580
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:03,130
higher power inside all nothing else

581
00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:05,710
matters and so for me I think it was

582
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:07,750
quite a classical experience of having a

583
00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:10,330
couple of years like that where I was

584
00:25:13,289 --> 00:25:12,340
just the Blessed ninny just bouncing

585
00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:13,299
around in bliss

586
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:14,950
everything's amazing everybody's

587
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:18,130
beautiful people liked it because they

588
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:20,490
could see how incredibly happy I was but

589
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:22,510
it was a little bit

590
00:25:26,810 --> 00:25:24,610
it wasn't balanced it wasn't what we

591
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:26,820
call grounded it wasn't integrated

592
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:30,640
mm-hmm and it tends in it it tends to

593
00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:33,610
wear off I think after a while and now

594
00:25:36,570 --> 00:25:35,080
when I see people are in that phase

595
00:25:38,610 --> 00:25:36,580
they're gonna they look like they're

596
00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:38,620
just not they don't really have much

597
00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:40,120
substance a little bit like they could

598
00:25:45,299 --> 00:25:43,000
they could float away you know they're

599
00:25:47,549 --> 00:25:45,309
very happy but they're not actually

600
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:47,559
really they're kind of in the physical

601
00:25:54,029 --> 00:25:51,970
body being solid yeah I mean I don't

602
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:54,039
know for somebody who has a lot of

603
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:55,450
background in that stuff this would all

604
00:26:00,210 --> 00:25:57,850
make I think perfect sense and for other

605
00:26:02,490 --> 00:26:00,220
people who don't then I don't know if

606
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:02,500
that makes sense to you or not it just

607
00:26:05,310 --> 00:26:04,000
makes sense to me I can kind of see that

608
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:05,320
like you know it's obviously very

609
00:26:08,730 --> 00:26:06,880
attractive having these mystical

610
00:26:12,419 --> 00:26:08,740
experiences and I think you've been

611
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:12,429
there in a way that can be all that you

612
00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:14,770
need yeah just being young you just have

613
00:26:18,659 --> 00:26:16,840
this feeling of happiness if you can

614
00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:18,669
yeah make make your brain do this

615
00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:20,830
regardless of whether it's a you know

616
00:26:24,299 --> 00:26:22,720
some kind of genuine mr. Figg experience

617
00:26:25,460 --> 00:26:24,309
or just kind of some way of tricking a

618
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:25,470
brain chemistry

619
00:26:30,169 --> 00:26:28,559
into into this then you know it's it

620
00:26:32,539 --> 00:26:30,179
feels good and they're happy and that's

621
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:32,549
that's great but yeah like I say this

622
00:26:37,070 --> 00:26:34,710
there's more to life than just simply

623
00:26:41,749 --> 00:26:37,080
having a sensation of happiness all the

624
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,759
time yeah and if it's a true lasting

625
00:26:46,009 --> 00:26:43,679
like we would say that the Guru's the

626
00:26:48,499 --> 00:26:46,019
true guru the true Saint the true

627
00:26:51,850 --> 00:26:48,509
enlightened person would be established

628
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:51,860
in that bliss kind of in a non-stop way

629
00:26:56,299 --> 00:26:54,720
that's the kind of goal and as a young

630
00:26:57,860 --> 00:26:56,309
person it feels like wow this has been

631
00:27:01,549 --> 00:26:57,870
lasting for a year or two years I must

632
00:27:03,860 --> 00:27:01,559
be there and it's not it's just it's not

633
00:27:06,999 --> 00:27:03,870
so different to a drug high it's just

634
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:07,009
that it lasts a lot longer and it's uh

635
00:27:12,110 --> 00:27:10,110
yeah they still have come down I still

636
00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:12,120
came down eventually in there it was

637
00:27:19,779 --> 00:27:16,049
that was difficult as well so I yeah not

638
00:27:24,350 --> 00:27:19,789
so attracted to them listen anything now

639
00:27:28,009 --> 00:27:24,360
so after that in your little your your

640
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:28,019
essay you talk about kind of starting to

641
00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:32,490
believe in strange things I guess but

642
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:34,470
you you said you had friends tell you

643
00:27:38,570 --> 00:27:36,000
about the hundreth monkey which is the

644
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:38,580
idea that monkeys can kind of you get a

645
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:40,289
critical mass of monkeys learning one

646
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:41,850
thing and all the monkeys ever in the

647
00:27:47,019 --> 00:27:44,970
world learned the same thing and similar

648
00:27:48,590 --> 00:27:47,029
theories with with meditation

649
00:27:50,749 --> 00:27:48,600
Transcendental Meditation

650
00:27:53,659 --> 00:27:50,759
and there was a theory that the Bible

651
00:27:55,879 --> 00:27:53,669
was all changed and suppressed and there

652
00:27:58,490 --> 00:27:55,889
was some more accurate Bible than in

653
00:28:01,100 --> 00:27:58,500
some other things it seems like yeah

654
00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:01,110
this is kind of you getting into almost

655
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,700
conspiracy theories because the idea

656
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:04,320
that the Bible has been you know

657
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:06,090
deliberately changed and suppressed is

658
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:09,330
essentially a conspiracy theory would

659
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:12,419
you say you kind of just kind of in this

660
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,129
the spiritual life that you're in and

661
00:28:17,899 --> 00:28:16,080
the people you were around was there a

662
00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:17,909
lot of that type of thing like floating

663
00:28:23,779 --> 00:28:20,070
around the edges of various types of

664
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,789
conspiracy theories yeah I think so I

665
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:26,159
think they weren't this is still twenty

666
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:27,690
years ago and it wasn't quite what we

667
00:28:33,499 --> 00:28:31,289
see now yeah but eventually I was

668
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:33,509
because of my my spirituality was

669
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:36,450
non-religious I had an atheistic

670
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:39,360
upbringing and I guess I I found myself

671
00:28:45,770 --> 00:28:43,530
into new-age circles where kind of

672
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:45,780
anything goes really because I've been

673
00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:47,760
in those circles in recent years as well

674
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:50,070
but with a kind of a mob what I would

675
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:51,810
consider more balanced makes your mind

676
00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:54,120
yeah there's just a lot of stories that

677
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:56,340
go around and people repeat things

678
00:29:00,290 --> 00:28:58,320
it's the interesting thing so the idea

679
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:00,300
of the hundredth monkey you know one

680
00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:02,010
person tells another person it just gets

681
00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:04,260
passed around as as gospel

682
00:29:07,850 --> 00:29:05,940
maybe one of the famous ones that comes

683
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:07,860
to mind is the ayah the observer effect

684
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:11,730
in quantum physics so because the New

685
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:14,250
Age belief would be that we create our

686
00:29:18,380 --> 00:29:15,840
own reality which I don't really

687
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:18,390
subscribe to that anymore but again it's

688
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:19,890
one of those things at very appealing

689
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:22,410
and there's a certain amount of truth in

690
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:24,330
it and we can see it online these

691
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:27,810
wonderful states I think there's a lot

692
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:29,010
of truth in those and I love those

693
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:31,260
things but they get a bit weird after a

694
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:32,970
while so the idea that well anything's

695
00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:35,370
possible so they say oh I've experienced

696
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:36,900
a few things like previously thought

697
00:29:41,390 --> 00:29:39,000
were impossible I guess anything can be

698
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:41,400
possible massive and people dedicate

699
00:29:46,790 --> 00:29:43,490
their lives to learning to levitate and

700
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:46,800
I'm not aware of any genuine it examples

701
00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:49,260
of that and then the conspiracy theories

702
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:52,800
do drip in a little bit so I do see some

703
00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:55,890
of my new age friends on 9/11 yeah I

704
00:30:00,940 --> 00:29:57,510
wouldn't even call them truthers but

705
00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:00,950
they never mild interest and a Miles

706
00:30:05,780 --> 00:30:03,720
skepticism and then the chemtrail seems

707
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:05,790
to be the more popular one I think

708
00:30:10,670 --> 00:30:08,730
because probably the New Age communities

709
00:30:12,530 --> 00:30:10,680
are very interested in health you know a

710
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:12,540
lot of it's about eating well and

711
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,330
healing the body and making it as

712
00:30:19,130 --> 00:30:17,760
healthy as it can be and then you know

713
00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:19,140
common trails are difficult to get away

714
00:30:24,170 --> 00:30:22,230
from so that's when I hear the most I

715
00:30:26,270 --> 00:30:24,180
think yeah and I'm one that I did I

716
00:30:28,670 --> 00:30:26,280
remember hearing this in the late 90s

717
00:30:32,180 --> 00:30:28,680
and it was interesting something I

718
00:30:34,790 --> 00:30:32,190
thought about it I probably believed it

719
00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:34,800
the first time I heard it and maybe

720
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:36,120
thought about it for a few weeks but

721
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:37,710
then never talked about it with anyone

722
00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:41,760
and forgot about it these to be some

723
00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:43,680
light strange New England that's in 99

724
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:46,020
so it was all y2k stuff and then it came

725
00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:47,490
back around now we've got you know

726
00:30:51,860 --> 00:30:49,980
Nibiru and planetary yeah they came back

727
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:51,870
rounding twin I was I'd grown out of it

728
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:53,250
by 2012 and so I was

729
00:30:57,649 --> 00:30:55,770
nothing's gonna happen but I recognize

730
00:31:00,649 --> 00:30:57,659
this is exactly the same stuff that

731
00:31:03,409 --> 00:31:00,659
people were saying in 99 for y2k and

732
00:31:05,020 --> 00:31:03,419
Nostradamus and so that was the kind of

733
00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:05,030
things that used to float around and

734
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:07,320
then I could find newsletters from the

735
00:31:11,470 --> 00:31:09,510
70s or 80s or sixties and they were

736
00:31:13,820 --> 00:31:11,480
saying exactly the same thing as author

737
00:31:14,450 --> 00:31:13,830
so it just keeps coming around in our

738
00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:14,460
eye on them

739
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:16,140
it always seems very fresh when you're

740
00:31:21,140 --> 00:31:19,260
fresh in it but I did used to believe

741
00:31:25,010 --> 00:31:21,150
that stuff captain you know coming

742
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:25,020
cataclysms and and I just nothing

743
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:26,880
happened than it wore off I got a bit

744
00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:30,480
it's more sensible I think did you we

745
00:31:35,149 --> 00:31:32,580
preparing for a coming capitalism over

746
00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:35,159
it really and they're trying to raise

747
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:36,750
the world consciousness or something

748
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:37,110
like that

749
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:39,570
yeah it's it's you know I'd forgotten

750
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:43,530
about that but yes I was not in a major

751
00:31:50,390 --> 00:31:46,289
way but there was a real sense like okay

752
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,400
when when the clock turns 2000 you know

753
00:31:54,590 --> 00:31:52,799
I want to be in the right place so that

754
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:54,600
was that was something and I would

755
00:31:58,580 --> 00:31:56,370
really try and feel like what's the

756
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:58,590
right place for me and I think I tried

757
00:32:05,029 --> 00:31:59,760
so out to be in the right place I've

758
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:05,039
been on place but and also there was a

759
00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:07,250
sense back then a lot of these

760
00:32:12,740 --> 00:32:10,140
newsletters web pages and also some

761
00:32:16,159 --> 00:32:12,750
teachers would promote this idea at all

762
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:16,169
all you people everybody's waking up I'm

763
00:32:20,270 --> 00:32:17,850
sure they say it now as well but there's

764
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:20,280
this idea of universal enlightenment so

765
00:32:23,659 --> 00:32:22,140
like Oh have you noticed that you know

766
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:23,669
you're waking up and people you know are

767
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:26,490
waking up and you go yes well kaskus we

768
00:32:29,659 --> 00:32:27,690
live in a new age community and

769
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:29,669
everyone's just woken up and that's why

770
00:32:33,169 --> 00:32:31,500
they're there and it seems like the

771
00:32:36,620 --> 00:32:33,179
whole world is waking up and everything

772
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:36,630
reinforces that and then these

773
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,580
newsletters and a lot of them were

774
00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:40,320
channeled you know channel views that

775
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:42,990
it's like mm-hmm say are the coming

776
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:45,840
changes the earth may tip on its axis

777
00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:49,620
and societies will collapse and then you

778
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:50,220
will be ready

779
00:32:56,419 --> 00:32:54,570
and you'll you know you've already gone

780
00:32:57,799 --> 00:32:56,429
through all these layers of fear and

781
00:33:01,310 --> 00:32:57,809
you're not worried about anything and

782
00:33:03,289 --> 00:33:01,320
you know how to live by foraging and so

783
00:33:05,060 --> 00:33:03,299
that I think there was a real growing

784
00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:05,070
myth at that time but I definitely

785
00:33:08,419 --> 00:33:06,419
bought into it like okay

786
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:08,429
okay I'm gonna be a teacher I'm gonna

787
00:33:12,979 --> 00:33:11,070
lead some people on the Cataclysm will

788
00:33:14,419 --> 00:33:12,989
happen and then a whole bunch of people

789
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:14,429
will come and say oh we don't know what

790
00:33:19,220 --> 00:33:16,799
to do and I'll say hey hey no more a

791
00:33:23,299 --> 00:33:19,230
just observe your breath and we'll grow

792
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:23,309
some potatoes how is that going to help

793
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:25,710
though with all their you know having

794
00:33:31,460 --> 00:33:27,710
your very good breathing techniques

795
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,470
after the Cataclysm I guess you won't be

796
00:33:35,899 --> 00:33:33,840
afraid like if that happened like if I

797
00:33:36,889 --> 00:33:35,909
lost everything now or people that I

798
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:36,899
know who are like me if they lose

799
00:33:38,629 --> 00:33:38,070
everything they say well it doesn't

800
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:38,639
matter

801
00:33:43,489 --> 00:33:41,970
because all I need is so okay so those

802
00:33:45,499 --> 00:33:43,499
years of traveling and kind of

803
00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:45,509
establishing that in myself I traveled

804
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:48,600
for a long time without money kind of

805
00:33:53,090 --> 00:33:50,730
living on what I would call grace or

806
00:33:54,889 --> 00:33:53,100
Providence and so there's something in

807
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:54,899
me that maybe other people wouldn't have

808
00:33:58,849 --> 00:33:56,730
that they would say oh well I lost my

809
00:34:01,639 --> 00:33:58,859
car I might as well just shoot myself or

810
00:34:03,349 --> 00:34:01,649
I lost my wife or I lost my house and

811
00:34:05,239 --> 00:34:03,359
then that comes down to I guess the

812
00:34:07,789 --> 00:34:05,249
Buddhist idea of attachment so if you

813
00:34:09,770 --> 00:34:07,799
can transcend all your attachments -

814
00:34:12,379 --> 00:34:09,780
first of all the material realm and then

815
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:12,389
two other things such as beliefs such as

816
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,450
something we're interested in then and

817
00:34:20,839 --> 00:34:17,760
still realize that we're perfectly okay

818
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:20,849
and you're okay so I guess the idea was

819
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:22,530
all these other people would be freaking

820
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:24,690
out because the financial system and

821
00:34:27,260 --> 00:34:26,129
collapsed and you you know you'd be

822
00:34:30,589 --> 00:34:27,270
alright you'd be sitting there going oh

823
00:34:32,059 --> 00:34:30,599
don't worry about it it's fine you can

824
00:34:34,549 --> 00:34:32,069
still laugh and you can still get

825
00:34:36,319 --> 00:34:34,559
everything you need that was the idea I

826
00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:36,329
don't believe in that coming Cataclysm

827
00:34:42,859 --> 00:34:39,960
now yeah I thought it was interesting

828
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:42,869
that you you said you were going around

829
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:44,940
you thought everybody she had similar

830
00:34:47,809 --> 00:34:46,139
beliefs to you because you were just

831
00:34:49,930 --> 00:34:47,819
talking to people who had mystical and

832
00:34:53,359 --> 00:34:49,940
then you you came back to England and

833
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:53,369
you kind of you saw the people in

834
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:54,960
England which is the same as that always

835
00:35:02,480 --> 00:34:58,170
been yeah that's something I think back

836
00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:02,490
on with fun that's because so because

837
00:35:05,839 --> 00:35:04,260
because I just say I feel like it's it's

838
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:05,849
a kind of waking up as well working up

839
00:35:10,609 --> 00:35:08,730
to just realism but there isn't a

840
00:35:12,319 --> 00:35:10,619
universal enlightenment happen him and

841
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:12,329
maybe on a smaller scale I'm not sure

842
00:35:16,579 --> 00:35:14,640
and Yoga seems a lot more popular now

843
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:16,589
than it was a hundred years ago and

844
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:20,040
meditation and mindfulness so but

845
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:22,260
on the whole after just being in

846
00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:23,790
spiritual communities for a few years

847
00:35:29,690 --> 00:35:26,820
and he's waking up and then I went back

848
00:35:33,350 --> 00:35:29,700
to leads them 11 o'clock on a Friday

849
00:35:35,740 --> 00:35:33,360
night you know do I walk for every

850
00:35:38,330 --> 00:35:35,750
person waking up there was 10,000 people

851
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:38,340
drinking and shouting and falling over

852
00:35:42,830 --> 00:35:41,250
in the street yeah yeah I think a lot of

853
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:42,840
people you know they gain their little

854
00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:44,730
community is especially online nowadays

855
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:47,790
and they just is not aware that there

856
00:35:53,330 --> 00:35:51,450
are what mainstream that the mainstream

857
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:53,340
world is actually a lie and what most

858
00:35:57,710 --> 00:35:56,280
people are like yeah they think that

859
00:35:59,360 --> 00:35:57,720
everyone thinks like they're like the

860
00:36:01,220 --> 00:35:59,370
chemtrail people they think that

861
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:01,230
everybody knows about chemtrails and

862
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:03,930
everybody is you know concerned about

863
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,970
these lines in the sky and everybody is

864
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:07,680
things that are being poisoned

865
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:09,720
when you just talk to pretty much any

866
00:36:13,570 --> 00:36:11,760
random person and it's pretty unlikely

867
00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:13,580
that they've even heard of chemtrails

868
00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:16,830
yeah yeah III even yeah I'm a deep

869
00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:19,590
bunker and I yeah because I talk about

870
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:21,960
it so often I think that it's I got the

871
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,130
feeling that it's more prevalent

872
00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:25,440
unintentional years and I thought it's

873
00:36:28,190 --> 00:36:26,820
mean wonder like what are you talking

874
00:36:31,730 --> 00:36:28,200
about what is this chemtrail thing that

875
00:36:34,370 --> 00:36:31,740
you're saying what you know what no

876
00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:34,380
one's even heard of this it's just not

877
00:36:39,590 --> 00:36:35,790
these these things are not as prevalent

878
00:36:41,570 --> 00:36:39,600
as they seem once we get stuck into it

879
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:41,580
I Earth's a prime example as well

880
00:36:46,370 --> 00:36:43,890
there was moments with how my god

881
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:46,380
everyone's believing it and then I

882
00:36:50,540 --> 00:36:47,970
talked to a real person in the real

883
00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:50,550
world what people believe that just

884
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:55,140
ignore it it helps to actually sit down

885
00:36:58,850 --> 00:36:56,610
and really think about the numbers

886
00:37:02,630 --> 00:36:58,860
involved and say okay they're not even

887
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:02,640
gonna fill a small football stadium if

888
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:04,530
you take a holder say all the believers

889
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:07,170
worldwide now it puts it into

890
00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:10,320
perspective this I think I had a phase

891
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:12,150
and I saw online that a lot of people

892
00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:13,290
had phases where they just felt

893
00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:15,870
overwhelmed by this level of what they

894
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:19,230
perceive as kind of what would you call

895
00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:25,680
it the death of education and critical

896
00:37:30,740 --> 00:37:28,260
thinking it's small small potatoes

897
00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:30,750
really anything yeah because the world

898
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:33,390
is going on pretty much as it was if you

899
00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:33,960
do step

900
00:37:38,030 --> 00:37:35,430
back from these things like if I step

901
00:37:40,430 --> 00:37:38,040
away from from debunking and the

902
00:37:42,650 --> 00:37:40,440
investigation a I do it's like it's like

903
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:42,660
oh why am I even bothering another time

904
00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:44,520
because it is it is in some ways quite a

905
00:37:48,609 --> 00:37:47,190
small thing but then again it's still

906
00:37:50,780 --> 00:37:48,619
affecting the lives of lots of people

907
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:50,790
maybe not as a percentage of the

908
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:54,530
population but still a lot thousands

909
00:38:00,050 --> 00:37:58,050
millions in some cases do you think that

910
00:38:03,290 --> 00:38:00,060
do you think about stepping away from

911
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:03,300
debunking I sometimes get a little bit

912
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:05,490
frustrated with it especially if I've

913
00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:07,290
been spending too much time in one thing

914
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:09,240
like Flat Earth like I did a lot of

915
00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:11,910
Lutter debunking in the lead up to me

916
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:13,020
going to speak at this Flat Earth

917
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:15,920
conference as a couple of months ago and

918
00:38:22,670 --> 00:38:19,680
you just kind of go through all of the

919
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,680
things and when you talk to people it

920
00:38:27,349 --> 00:38:24,560
doesn't seem to make any difference

921
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:27,359
bunking you did but that in itself was

922
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:29,040
very interesting because I went to this

923
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:31,040
conference and I talked to people and

924
00:38:36,740 --> 00:38:34,230
there was one guy in particular I was

925
00:38:38,030 --> 00:38:36,750
showing him pictures of Catalina Island

926
00:38:39,650 --> 00:38:38,040
which actually the pictures he took of

927
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:39,660
Catalina Island and we're discussing

928
00:38:45,710 --> 00:38:42,480
like how the near the horizon cuts off

929
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:45,720
the bottom half of the island and he was

930
00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:48,570
saying that he thought that's just

931
00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:49,950
because of perspective and that's

932
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:51,630
because it was far away and you know

933
00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:53,250
when I was doing the way I was fitting

934
00:38:57,410 --> 00:38:55,260
the pictures to the horizon was all

935
00:38:59,450 --> 00:38:57,420
wrong and then I should have I should

936
00:39:01,010 --> 00:38:59,460
actually have made it bigger and I said

937
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:01,020
I can make it bigger he doesn't fit and

938
00:39:07,220 --> 00:39:04,320
and he was just very interesting being

939
00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:07,230
unable to get through to somebody it was

940
00:39:12,589 --> 00:39:09,300
frustrating but it was kind of

941
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:12,599
fascinating look at why people continue

942
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:14,310
to believe in these things because they

943
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:17,450
can't actually wrap their head around

944
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:21,810
them yeah I think it's similar with 9/11

945
00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:23,609
like we don't eleven people can't

946
00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:25,080
conceive of how the buildings could have

947
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:28,230
collapsed you get the same type of thing

948
00:39:31,490 --> 00:39:29,599
you know other than the people can't

949
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:31,500
conceive of something in their head

950
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:34,500
there for conspiracy it's sad so it

951
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:35,910
sounds like I don't know whether the

952
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:40,170
conference was important in this or just

953
00:39:43,930 --> 00:39:42,270
in general and your general debunking it

954
00:39:46,609 --> 00:39:43,940
sounds like you've done quite well of

955
00:39:47,410 --> 00:39:46,619
going beyond the frustration aspect of

956
00:39:51,849 --> 00:39:47,420
it

957
00:39:54,420 --> 00:39:51,859
someone who won't who can't get that

958
00:39:58,960 --> 00:39:54,430
basic something basic as basic as

959
00:40:00,609 --> 00:39:58,970
photographs of an island like you seem

960
00:40:02,620 --> 00:40:00,619
you seem quite fine with that

961
00:40:04,299 --> 00:40:02,630
yeah well you've got a what can you do

962
00:40:06,190 --> 00:40:04,309
you can't just say throw up your arms

963
00:40:08,109 --> 00:40:06,200
and say you're an idiot and walk away I

964
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:08,119
think a lot of people do that

965
00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:10,490
they do it because it's frustrating and

966
00:40:15,069 --> 00:40:12,500
it almost seems like the other person is

967
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:15,079
being deliberately deliberately not

968
00:40:19,420 --> 00:40:17,150
seeing this thing but I don't think

969
00:40:21,279 --> 00:40:19,430
that's entirely true I think there's a

970
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:21,289
degree where them their their minds are

971
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:22,910
steering them away from it because they

972
00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:24,890
think that something else is true so

973
00:40:29,529 --> 00:40:27,740
they don't want it to be true but it's a

974
00:40:32,769 --> 00:40:29,539
lot of the times people genuinely have a

975
00:40:34,990 --> 00:40:32,779
hard time with visualizing things in

976
00:40:37,230 --> 00:40:35,000
three dimensions it's difficult to

977
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:37,240
explain certain concepts to people even

978
00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:39,490
like this simple you know Flat Earth

979
00:40:43,809 --> 00:40:41,630
experiments that you can do where you

980
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:43,819
you set up the sticks by the side of a

981
00:40:47,259 --> 00:40:45,410
canal and then you look along them and

982
00:40:51,279 --> 00:40:47,269
you see if it's curved curved or not

983
00:40:54,130 --> 00:40:51,289
just the Wallis experiment it's actually

984
00:40:56,380 --> 00:40:54,140
hard to explain that to ordinary people

985
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:56,390
who aren't used to thinking about things

986
00:41:01,089 --> 00:40:59,839
in terms of lines of sights and geometry

987
00:41:03,309 --> 00:41:01,099
and things like that

988
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:03,319
never mind the math just but just the

989
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:05,630
the spatial relationships of things

990
00:41:09,609 --> 00:41:07,130
people don't think about it most people

991
00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:09,619
don't really understand how far away the

992
00:41:14,349 --> 00:41:11,750
Sun is or how far away the moon is or

993
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:14,359
how big the Sun is or how big the

994
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:16,490
universe is they have no conception and

995
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:18,410
you can't get it through to them so I

996
00:41:25,930 --> 00:41:21,890
think realizing that is is a good start

997
00:41:27,579 --> 00:41:25,940
for genuine communication I would say

998
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:27,589
probably most people who understand how

999
00:41:32,049 --> 00:41:29,690
to think in 3d don't understand that

1000
00:41:34,569 --> 00:41:32,059
other people can't do that but yeah yeah

1001
00:41:37,450 --> 00:41:34,579
definitely and my background is a very

1002
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:37,460
very strong 3d thinking thing because I

1003
00:41:44,499 --> 00:41:39,650
spent like you know decades doing video

1004
00:41:47,380 --> 00:41:44,509
games which a lot of that is 3d geometry

1005
00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:47,390
I took advanced mathematics of school

1006
00:41:52,059 --> 00:41:49,940
and yeah a third of that was 3d

1007
00:41:53,769 --> 00:41:52,069
coordinate geometry which most people

1008
00:41:56,349 --> 00:41:53,779
didn't take a school it was this obscure

1009
00:41:58,450 --> 00:41:56,359
escort topic so yeah I've got this like

1010
00:42:01,960 --> 00:41:58,460
my brain is wired for three dimensions

1011
00:42:03,460 --> 00:42:01,970
the almost nobody

1012
00:42:05,410 --> 00:42:03,470
you know there's other people who are

1013
00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:05,420
into computer graphics I and people who

1014
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:07,369
you know think about and inner artists

1015
00:42:12,130 --> 00:42:08,690
maybe you're thinking about lines of

1016
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:12,140
sight the most people they they don't

1017
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:14,930
have the same brain as me and so you've

1018
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:16,490
really got to figure out how you explain

1019
00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:19,190
things do it to those people you you

1020
00:42:23,470 --> 00:42:21,710
have some things that you talk about a

1021
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,480
lot with the mountains the relative

1022
00:42:27,310 --> 00:42:25,760
heights of mountains like if you stand

1023
00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:27,320
on the top of one mountain and this is

1024
00:42:30,579 --> 00:42:29,030
other mountain the same height and then

1025
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:30,589
another one the same hiked further away

1026
00:42:34,839 --> 00:42:33,440
this should all be level with each other

1027
00:42:36,970 --> 00:42:34,849
if it's a flat earth or one should be

1028
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,980
higher than another if it's around earth

1029
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:38,960
and if they're different heights you can

1030
00:42:44,530 --> 00:42:42,730
work out the angles yeah but I think I

1031
00:42:46,060 --> 00:42:44,540
don't know if you're really going to be

1032
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:46,070
reaching many people with that because

1033
00:42:54,849 --> 00:42:51,920
yeah what angles you know is people

1034
00:42:57,820 --> 00:42:54,859
don't in their daily life they they

1035
00:42:58,960 --> 00:42:57,830
don't know what an angle is yeah even a

1036
00:43:01,300 --> 00:42:58,970
lot of people you ask them what a right

1037
00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:01,310
angle is they won't know what the right

1038
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:03,080
angle is just ordinary people because he

1039
00:43:06,730 --> 00:43:04,730
doesn't come up and if you haven't

1040
00:43:09,820 --> 00:43:06,740
thought about what a right angle is for

1041
00:43:11,170 --> 00:43:09,830
the last 20 30 years and someone

1042
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:11,180
suddenly starts talking about well it

1043
00:43:15,970 --> 00:43:13,130
should be like you know 0.7 degrees here

1044
00:43:18,130 --> 00:43:15,980
and 0.72 five degrees for this mountain

1045
00:43:23,230 --> 00:43:18,140
and it's not a 0.6 no I

1046
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:23,240
yeah talking about yeah it's been an

1047
00:43:29,950 --> 00:43:26,810
interesting journey do you get much

1048
00:43:32,770 --> 00:43:29,960
feedback on your your debunking videos

1049
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:32,780
from people who have you convinced

1050
00:43:39,790 --> 00:43:34,250
anybody has anybody said oh yeah that

1051
00:43:41,470 --> 00:43:39,800
makes sense and because in 1 or 2 1 or 2

1052
00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:41,480
said they were on the fence and now

1053
00:43:44,740 --> 00:43:43,369
they're gonna go with the globe well

1054
00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:44,750
that's what they said at the time I mean

1055
00:43:48,460 --> 00:43:46,940
who knows which I thought there might

1056
00:43:54,460 --> 00:43:48,470
have been more maybe I would have hoped

1057
00:43:57,849 --> 00:43:54,470
for more yeah yeah I think um so much

1058
00:43:59,380 --> 00:43:57,859
feedback from people now and often that

1059
00:44:01,180 --> 00:43:59,390
when it does come it comes kind of

1060
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:01,190
almost indirectly years later and it's

1061
00:44:04,750 --> 00:44:02,810
more like you were part of the picture

1062
00:44:07,810 --> 00:44:04,760
rather than you were the turning point

1063
00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:07,820
they were saying it was very useful so I

1064
00:44:12,220 --> 00:44:09,260
think the other stuff you doing now is

1065
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:12,230
is solid debunking stuff like you've

1066
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:13,609
done a lot of these videos like

1067
00:44:17,980 --> 00:44:15,050
explaining

1068
00:44:19,570 --> 00:44:17,990
you know why these mountains prove that

1069
00:44:24,130 --> 00:44:19,580
the earth is round and I think for some

1070
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:24,140
people that can be helpful yeah choose

1071
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:26,210
this all the the people who already know

1072
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:30,730
that the globe just say yeah well that's

1073
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:32,930
your preaching to the choir a lot I

1074
00:44:35,790 --> 00:44:34,400
think something about Flat Earth

1075
00:44:38,860 --> 00:44:35,800
debunking is that it's very entertaining

1076
00:44:40,330 --> 00:44:38,870
for the debunkers it's just it's a very

1077
00:44:41,710 --> 00:44:40,340
immediately attractive thing that you

1078
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:41,720
can grasp hold off and if you do know a

1079
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,130
little bit of geometry you can just you

1080
00:44:46,570 --> 00:44:44,960
can do the math and you can or you can

1081
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:46,580
make these observations that you've got

1082
00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:48,890
this one way you you look at the horizon

1083
00:44:52,510 --> 00:44:51,140
and you've got the straight edge where

1084
00:44:54,730 --> 00:44:52,520
you you compare the straight edge

1085
00:45:00,130 --> 00:44:54,740
against the horizon these fun things you

1086
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,140
can do and it's also two worlds of like

1087
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:02,000
people who enjoy doing the debunking

1088
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:03,290
stuff and there's people who enjoy

1089
00:45:10,410 --> 00:45:05,530
believing it and there's not that much

1090
00:45:12,610 --> 00:45:10,420
actual overlap doesn't seem like it now

1091
00:45:15,370 --> 00:45:12,620
yeah it's been a journey with the

1092
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,380
plateau thing for sure and metal bunks

1093
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:17,440
been a big part of them your approach to

1094
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:20,000
trying to be civil and just very

1095
00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:23,030
balanced level-headed and then I really

1096
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:25,070
seen it again as I guess as I do most

1097
00:45:29,230 --> 00:45:26,330
things in life as a tool for personal

1098
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:29,240
development so this idea what we just

1099
00:45:33,250 --> 00:45:31,040
talked about you know trying to trying

1100
00:45:35,170 --> 00:45:33,260
to understand that people see the world

1101
00:45:37,210 --> 00:45:35,180
differently to how I see it oh we all

1102
00:45:38,770 --> 00:45:37,220
see it differently and and so okay well

1103
00:45:43,870 --> 00:45:38,780
there's no reason to be frustrated with

1104
00:45:47,170 --> 00:45:43,880
them all the to say big the video thing

1105
00:45:49,630 --> 00:45:47,180
that I did I had a creative desire to

1106
00:45:51,700 --> 00:45:49,640
make these videos and to get the

1107
00:45:54,130 --> 00:45:51,710
knowledge that I accumulated in my head

1108
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:54,140
which was big I become becoming a bit of

1109
00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:56,630
a burden and I wanted to get it out of

1110
00:46:00,250 --> 00:45:57,260
me

1111
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:00,260
so in a way it's you know I was

1112
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:01,910
perfectly satisfied I didn't need to

1113
00:46:04,270 --> 00:46:03,680
convert anyone I didn't need to prove

1114
00:46:07,090 --> 00:46:04,280
anything

1115
00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:07,100
cuz I just want to make videos enjoy it

1116
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:10,550
and get it out of me so I got my reward

1117
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:12,170
anyway and then everything else was a

1118
00:46:17,380 --> 00:46:14,570
bonus and the idea also just working

1119
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:17,390
with expectations or working with my own

1120
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:19,280
attachments to how other people should

1121
00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:22,730
be or think or when even like you say

1122
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:25,700
people come around in years you know so

1123
00:46:28,740 --> 00:46:28,250
if it works in five years that's fine I

1124
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:28,750
shouldn't

1125
00:46:34,110 --> 00:46:30,970
an attachment to anybody understanding

1126
00:46:36,510 --> 00:46:34,120
anything today or tomorrow so it's all

1127
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:36,520
yeah it's been interesting that when I

1128
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:38,650
felt the frustration calm or the anger

1129
00:46:45,090 --> 00:46:40,570
okay well it that's something for me to

1130
00:46:46,980 --> 00:46:45,100
learn from now so that's been nice well

1131
00:46:49,530 --> 00:46:46,990
I think some of the debunkers just don't

1132
00:46:51,810 --> 00:46:49,540
seem to they don't take it as a personal

1133
00:46:53,850 --> 00:46:51,820
journey they want more people to change

1134
00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:53,860
on other people's minds to think

1135
00:46:59,250 --> 00:46:56,140
differently and I don't think the world

1136
00:47:01,340 --> 00:46:59,260
really works like that very well what do

1137
00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:01,350
you think of these the other debunkers

1138
00:47:10,050 --> 00:47:07,630
on YouTube like Simon Dan or quite the

1139
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:10,060
Flat Earth you know there's guys who

1140
00:47:14,490 --> 00:47:11,920
have channels that are almost entirely

1141
00:47:16,290 --> 00:47:14,500
devoted to Flat Earth debunking I think

1142
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:16,300
Simon dams branching out a bit more now

1143
00:47:21,870 --> 00:47:19,030
but yeah like for a while it was just

1144
00:47:24,090 --> 00:47:21,880
all you know pick a flat earth video and

1145
00:47:27,060 --> 00:47:24,100
make fun of it and then you can see I'm

1146
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:27,070
doing debates like they they will find

1147
00:47:31,860 --> 00:47:28,570
some flat earthers and then they will

1148
00:47:33,870 --> 00:47:31,870
just you know basically the one guy

1149
00:47:35,340 --> 00:47:33,880
calling the other guy stupid for a half

1150
00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:35,350
an hour and then explaining why in

1151
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:38,350
stupid what do you think that's a good

1152
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:42,910
thing it's not really my cup of tea like

1153
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:44,890
what I what I try and tell myself to

1154
00:47:49,140 --> 00:47:45,850
look on the bright side is well

1155
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:49,150
everything has its place so I mean Simon

1156
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:50,560
Donna's a huge number of followers

1157
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:55,570
people who love his videos and I have

1158
00:48:01,350 --> 00:47:59,440
seen in his comments people say you know

1159
00:48:04,530 --> 00:48:01,360
oh I was a flyer that I'm not anymore

1160
00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:04,540
because of Simon BAM so I think okay so

1161
00:48:11,130 --> 00:48:06,790
he because he gets a huge audience he's

1162
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:11,140
gonna probably help more people and he

1163
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:13,090
gets a huge audience because of his more

1164
00:48:18,090 --> 00:48:15,730
popularised style like it's pretty

1165
00:48:20,310 --> 00:48:18,100
straight to the point it's quite it's

1166
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,320
not confrontational but he likes to mock

1167
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:23,200
people and after low hanging fruit I

1168
00:48:27,420 --> 00:48:24,850
said well that's not really what I want

1169
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:27,430
to do and I wouldn't feel comfortable

1170
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:30,310
being that way but you know that's his

1171
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:33,610
thing and yeah I don't find it

1172
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:35,440
particularly interesting that the

1173
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:39,250
debates they have the the non sequitur

1174
00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:41,020
sure like I know you were on there

1175
00:48:46,550 --> 00:48:42,700
talking to Steve McCray

1176
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:46,560
yeah yeah and he you know he likes to

1177
00:48:52,530 --> 00:48:50,170
call people idiots and I thought it was

1178
00:48:54,210 --> 00:48:52,540
beautiful answered him was really nice I

1179
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,220
featured it in one of my hundreds of

1180
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:56,800
videos for there you came across with

1181
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:58,450
that very compassion that balanced

1182
00:49:02,730 --> 00:49:00,640
approach and he was a hard but they're

1183
00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:02,740
just idiots why do you keep inviting

1184
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:08,680
them on harassing your street you're

1185
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:12,430
asking them to your space yes I thought

1186
00:49:16,380 --> 00:49:14,710
people were idiots why would you you

1187
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:16,390
know make fun of them all the time it

1188
00:49:22,319 --> 00:49:20,650
just doesn't seem very nice views and

1189
00:49:25,859 --> 00:49:22,329
subscribers thing and I didn't want that

1190
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:25,869
yeah and I you know as a contrarian and

1191
00:49:30,540 --> 00:49:28,930
to some degree so once I stopped making

1192
00:49:32,310 --> 00:49:30,550
my Flat Earth videos I put up a whole

1193
00:49:34,620 --> 00:49:32,320
bunch of videos about my spiritual

1194
00:49:38,430 --> 00:49:34,630
journey thinking that I could lose most

1195
00:49:40,859 --> 00:49:38,440
of my subscribers because I've just I

1196
00:49:42,420 --> 00:49:40,869
well I guess I'm I was never into it for

1197
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:42,430
that even though I had accusations that

1198
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:44,200
I was wanting views and subscribing

1199
00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:46,450
why why would I want that I think the

1200
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:48,220
thing is as well with the assignment and

1201
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:50,970
you more popular guys in the in the game

1202
00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:53,470
as I would call it I could feel that

1203
00:49:56,430 --> 00:49:55,150
when I was doing my videos and it starts

1204
00:50:00,240 --> 00:49:56,440
to build and some of them are getting

1205
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:00,250
eight or ten thousand views and all the

1206
00:50:05,130 --> 00:50:03,490
comments and the positive feedback and

1207
00:50:08,849 --> 00:50:05,140
I'll go get em Rory you know get the

1208
00:50:11,970 --> 00:50:08,859
flat earthers pitchfork Brigade and I

1209
00:50:14,970 --> 00:50:11,980
think oh wow like what if how do I stop

1210
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:14,980
this now there's all this momentum how

1211
00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:17,440
does someone like Simon down if he wakes

1212
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:18,940
up one day and thinks this is Joe I'm

1213
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:21,250
bored of this but you've got all these

1214
00:50:25,950 --> 00:50:24,490
followers you've got your income Nathan

1215
00:50:27,809 --> 00:50:25,960
Oakley I think fight the fly they're

1216
00:50:29,490 --> 00:50:27,819
they're getting non-sequitur sure

1217
00:50:33,210 --> 00:50:29,500
they've got their like their livelihoods

1218
00:50:34,530 --> 00:50:33,220
depend on it and so and I could again it

1219
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:34,540
was a little one of those moments where

1220
00:50:39,210 --> 00:50:35,890
I could feel my brain could go in this

1221
00:50:42,839 --> 00:50:39,220
direction and maybe become more popular

1222
00:50:46,609 --> 00:50:42,849
restore more confrontational very very

1223
00:50:49,140 --> 00:50:46,619
easy to do a very easy path to go down I

1224
00:50:50,339 --> 00:50:49,150
don't really want to do that got other

1225
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:50,349
thing I don't want to be chained to a

1226
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:55,690
computer just watching people

1227
00:51:01,230 --> 00:50:58,490
pouring water on a ball repeatedly and

1228
00:51:03,059 --> 00:51:01,240
me sitting there editing videos so I can

1229
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:03,069
laugh at them is not what I want to do

1230
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:05,920
in my life yeah yeah different strokes

1231
00:51:09,540 --> 00:51:08,319
for different folks indeed indeed I'd

1232
00:51:12,180 --> 00:51:09,550
like to kind of finish up by talking

1233
00:51:17,010 --> 00:51:12,190
about one thing you wrote about in your

1234
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:17,020
your essay which is Atlantis yeah you

1235
00:51:21,870 --> 00:51:19,839
know this experience with Atlantis which

1236
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:21,880
I found fascinating because it seemed

1237
00:51:26,180 --> 00:51:23,050
like this turning point

1238
00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:26,190
the key is yes they what happened there

1239
00:51:31,950 --> 00:51:29,710
yeah sure that was that would have been

1240
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:31,960
in about 2002 when I was in my first

1241
00:51:36,839 --> 00:51:34,089
year at University and kind of went

1242
00:51:41,730 --> 00:51:36,849
later when I was 26 after my traveling

1243
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:41,740
days and so I was in this process of

1244
00:51:47,099 --> 00:51:45,040
coming back to but I was still running

1245
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:47,109
with a lot of those old New Age ideas

1246
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:51,010
that I picked up and again a very

1247
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:52,510
prevalent thing in the New Age still

1248
00:51:56,700 --> 00:51:54,910
today and it was me back then was this

1249
00:52:00,569 --> 00:51:56,710
idea that was Atlantis was a real place

1250
00:52:01,980 --> 00:52:00,579
and that people could even communicate

1251
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:01,990
with them now these channelers they

1252
00:52:07,530 --> 00:52:04,720
could channel Atlanteans and lemurians

1253
00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:07,540
and seventh dimensional beings that live

1254
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,500
inside Mount Shasta and blouse all very

1255
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:13,839
wild stuff but I it all made sense to me

1256
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:16,930
at the time and then I'm sitting in this

1257
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:19,390
class at university to do with as on

1258
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:22,450
classics and Plato comes up and talking

1259
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:25,450
about Atlantis the origins of Atlantis

1260
00:52:30,930 --> 00:52:28,210
as an allegory and I was just kind of

1261
00:52:32,730 --> 00:52:30,940
what I thought it was you know something

1262
00:52:37,230 --> 00:52:32,740
that we didn't really know about kind of

1263
00:52:39,569 --> 00:52:37,240
in that King Arthur or you know enough

1264
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:39,579
there's maybe found the ruins and they

1265
00:52:45,839 --> 00:52:43,119
will find the ruins it's just a story

1266
00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:45,849
that some guy made up so I mean we don't

1267
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:48,609
really know the origins of Atlantis or

1268
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:51,040
where Plato got the idea but it was like

1269
00:52:55,650 --> 00:52:52,930
you say it was that moment Michael hi

1270
00:52:58,650 --> 00:52:55,660
I'm gonna look into that and I think

1271
00:53:00,210 --> 00:52:58,660
that from what I remember that was

1272
00:53:02,180 --> 00:53:00,220
something that started a ball rolling

1273
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:02,190
but when I researched and say wow

1274
00:53:07,319 --> 00:53:05,530
everything I believe the whole I think

1275
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:07,329
it comes from probably and its roots in

1276
00:53:12,140 --> 00:53:08,910
Madame Blavatsky the

1277
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:12,150
ah fists they saw this the Atlantis myth

1278
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:14,930
that has grown up and that survives now

1279
00:53:19,460 --> 00:53:18,090
okay so Plato made the original story

1280
00:53:22,130 --> 00:53:19,470
then some people in the 19th century

1281
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:22,140
created a myth about it and now me and

1282
00:53:27,890 --> 00:53:25,020
all my friends are repeating it to other

1283
00:53:31,220 --> 00:53:27,900
people like ah okay so I've been really

1284
00:53:33,230 --> 00:53:31,230
wrong about that and it started me I

1285
00:53:34,940 --> 00:53:33,240
think underneath that everything there's

1286
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:34,950
a real quest for a truth here I don't

1287
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:35,850
know a lot of people will say that

1288
00:53:42,110 --> 00:53:39,510
that's fine I just wanted to know the

1289
00:53:44,330 --> 00:53:42,120
truth of that yeah and it started a ball

1290
00:53:46,190 --> 00:53:44,340
rolling I think just when I realized how

1291
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:46,200
wrong I could be and I didn't have any

1292
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:48,000
interest in building any shields around

1293
00:53:51,890 --> 00:53:50,610
there like okay I had a wrong belief

1294
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:51,900
that's not the worst thing in the world

1295
00:53:57,850 --> 00:53:55,050
I wonder what else I believe that's

1296
00:54:01,370 --> 00:53:57,860
wrong so I tried to research everything

1297
00:54:03,770 --> 00:54:01,380
that I'd heard and I've done a lot of it

1298
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:03,780
once I started so this the hundredth

1299
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:05,910
monkey well okay it's not what I was

1300
00:54:09,350 --> 00:54:06,510
told

1301
00:54:11,590 --> 00:54:09,360
this suppo is a science experiment and

1302
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:11,600
this suppose that occurring since that

1303
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:15,210
yeah a lot of it was fantasy and

1304
00:54:21,590 --> 00:54:16,410
make-believe them

1305
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:21,600
we'd disappointed um I think my

1306
00:54:29,780 --> 00:54:25,920
enthusiasm for truth overrode that and I

1307
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,790
do find it happens maybe a few years ago

1308
00:54:35,540 --> 00:54:31,440
as something came up that I'd forgotten

1309
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:35,550
about and then came up about some Indian

1310
00:54:39,980 --> 00:54:38,400
spiritual teacher why I oh they weren't

1311
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:39,990
quite what I thought there were so I

1312
00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:42,510
feel that moment of disappointment but I

1313
00:54:47,210 --> 00:54:45,750
also know that there's no point in in it

1314
00:54:48,380 --> 00:54:47,220
really there's no point in the feeling

1315
00:54:51,530 --> 00:54:48,390
disappointment there's no point trying

1316
00:54:54,980 --> 00:54:51,540
to cling to the old story the old false

1317
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:54,990
story really so it's a bit like just

1318
00:55:00,260 --> 00:54:58,020
just a moment of like readjusting yeah

1319
00:55:03,890 --> 00:55:00,270
okay now now I'm in this new reality

1320
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:03,900
where I'm a one more belief light okay

1321
00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:05,850
that's fine and I've done that enough

1322
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:07,440
times to know that again it's one of

1323
00:55:12,530 --> 00:55:10,110
those things that it's okay to be

1324
00:55:14,330 --> 00:55:12,540
without beliefs especially beliefs in

1325
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:14,340
things that aren't real you'll you'll

1326
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:15,690
I'm sure you're convinced that I believe

1327
00:55:20,060 --> 00:55:17,910
things that aren't real still but that's

1328
00:55:22,290 --> 00:55:20,070
okay also

1329
00:55:25,380 --> 00:55:22,300
that's a topic for another another

1330
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,390
discussion yeah you said how does this

1331
00:55:29,460 --> 00:55:28,000
this affect your your relationships with

1332
00:55:32,010 --> 00:55:29,470
other people that like you other people

1333
00:55:34,770 --> 00:55:32,020
who are still in the mystical more

1334
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:34,780
mystical mindset then you were alright

1335
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:35,490
now

1336
00:55:42,350 --> 00:55:38,890
yeah they you said they were they saw

1337
00:55:45,150 --> 00:55:42,360
you as a pain in the ass T banker yeah I

1338
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,160
think I'm kind of lucky like the way

1339
00:55:50,250 --> 00:55:47,680
that I live I tend to move a lot so as I

1340
00:55:53,790 --> 00:55:50,260
change my surroundings change and vice

1341
00:55:56,370 --> 00:55:53,800
versa so when I become a new and enter a

1342
00:55:59,550 --> 00:55:56,380
new way of thinking and I just move into

1343
00:56:02,490 --> 00:55:59,560
a new place but I do have some very old

1344
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:02,500
friends who as you know from 20 years

1345
00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:04,240
ago haven't changed very much from those

1346
00:56:09,210 --> 00:56:07,270
new-age days and yeah I saw them a few

1347
00:56:12,420 --> 00:56:09,220
years ago and spent time living with

1348
00:56:14,190 --> 00:56:12,430
them again and yeah they saw me as a

1349
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:14,200
pain in the ass cus like everything they

1350
00:56:20,730 --> 00:56:17,290
said after a while they knew like Rory

1351
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:20,740
seeing their it's gonna come back as you

1352
00:56:24,570 --> 00:56:22,690
say well where did you hear that I said

1353
00:56:28,740 --> 00:56:24,580
you know yeah I know about that that's

1354
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:28,750
not and it made it hard for me yeah like

1355
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:31,450
then they're very nice people and the

1356
00:56:35,850 --> 00:56:33,130
things that they believe don't affect

1357
00:56:37,890 --> 00:56:35,860
them in any negative way and then with

1358
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:37,900
it and it's very minor stuff a lot of

1359
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:40,960
the time but it makes it difficult

1360
00:56:43,230 --> 00:56:42,850
because I find it hard to keep my mouth

1361
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:43,240
shut

1362
00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:45,850
yeah you know I just think I don't want

1363
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:48,460
to believe anything that's nonsense also

1364
00:56:52,530 --> 00:56:49,810
some of them are teachers they're like

1365
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:52,540
yoga teachers meditation teachers and I

1366
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:55,570
know that they repeat these bunks to

1367
00:56:59,100 --> 00:56:57,520
other people and I think when you're a

1368
00:57:00,990 --> 00:56:59,110
teacher I think there's like a duty

1369
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:01,000
there to really make sure what you're

1370
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:05,530
saying is true I think also there's if

1371
00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:06,880
you're a teacher and you've been

1372
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:08,710
teaching these things to other people I

1373
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:11,050
think that really would distance center

1374
00:57:15,630 --> 00:57:13,570
Faiz you to actually change your belief

1375
00:57:17,580 --> 00:57:15,640
because it would be so embarrassing to

1376
00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:17,590
have to go to your students and say you

1377
00:57:20,610 --> 00:57:18,670
know I've been telling you all this

1378
00:57:22,860 --> 00:57:20,620
stuff especially you've been doing it

1379
00:57:26,790 --> 00:57:22,870
for years and you've taught hundreds of

1380
00:57:29,370 --> 00:57:26,800
people you can imagine that teachers in

1381
00:57:32,770 --> 00:57:29,380
some ways might actually get more stuck

1382
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:32,780
in their beliefs than that other people

1383
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:35,210
I think that's totally true yeah it's

1384
00:57:39,580 --> 00:57:38,240
very yeah very perceptive on yoga person

1385
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:39,590
to pick up on that

1386
00:57:44,890 --> 00:57:42,050
yeah I see it's totally true I see it

1387
00:57:47,950 --> 00:57:44,900
definitely and the people I know in

1388
00:57:50,020 --> 00:57:47,960
spiritual circles do I say oh I really

1389
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:50,030
look up to you they don't want to be

1390
00:57:54,670 --> 00:57:51,440
teachers because they see it's such a

1391
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:54,680
trap you get pigeonholed and put on a

1392
00:58:00,400 --> 00:57:58,250
pedestal and then again it can become

1393
00:58:02,110 --> 00:58:00,410
like feeding the ego and say well I'm on

1394
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:02,120
this pedestal I guess I kind of like I

1395
00:58:06,910 --> 00:58:04,490
don't really want to get off it's too

1396
00:58:11,710 --> 00:58:06,920
difficult to get off so it gets a real

1397
00:58:12,790 --> 00:58:11,720
trap in a lot of ways yeah right I don't

1398
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:12,800
think of teachers I think of science

1399
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:14,450
teachers and I think that's that's fine

1400
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:16,730
and you know I can see what you're

1401
00:58:21,310 --> 00:58:19,310
saying there with the more spiritual

1402
00:58:23,730 --> 00:58:21,320
teachers you know they want to be right

1403
00:58:26,620 --> 00:58:23,740
but also they don't want to be wrong and

1404
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:26,630
you can get this they're doing the same

1405
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:28,130
thing over and over it's not so much a

1406
00:58:32,290 --> 00:58:31,040
journey of discovery if they start out

1407
00:58:36,580 --> 00:58:32,300
with something that's not quite right

1408
00:58:38,980 --> 00:58:36,590
start out with yeah yeah and there's

1409
00:58:40,930 --> 00:58:38,990
that they need to be trusted as well

1410
00:58:43,420 --> 00:58:40,940
yeah before you know it's not just

1411
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:43,430
science teachers giving you facts it's a

1412
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:46,640
real interpersonal relationship so it

1413
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:49,310
has to be a lot of trust there so yeah

1414
00:58:54,340 --> 00:58:52,130
whenever you know is that maybe goes

1415
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:54,350
over to the conspiracy theorists as well

1416
00:58:58,810 --> 00:58:56,330
like you got the promoters of conspiracy

1417
00:59:00,820 --> 00:58:58,820
theories like the the chemtrail guy Dane

1418
00:59:04,210 --> 00:59:00,830
Wigington who's always essentially

1419
00:59:06,460 --> 00:59:04,220
teaching people about chemtrails they

1420
00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:06,470
they get that same kind of feedback in

1421
00:59:11,410 --> 00:59:08,510
that they've told the same story so many

1422
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:11,420
times to so many people then it's really

1423
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:13,310
reinforced it for them and they they're

1424
00:59:18,820 --> 00:59:14,960
they've really brought it brought into

1425
00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:18,830
being right yeah and they'd be such a

1426
00:59:24,430 --> 00:59:21,470
fallout as well oh yeah as you bring up

1427
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:24,440
a lot that once you kind of step out of

1428
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:27,200
the conspiracy fiat feels lose all your

1429
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,090
friends and will become like a family

1430
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,520
and so I think somewhere subconsciously

1431
00:59:35,140 --> 00:59:33,440
they they know there's a polariton I

1432
00:59:38,620 --> 00:59:35,150
don't know what it's like in conspiracy

1433
00:59:41,230 --> 00:59:38,630
theory terms but it may be like in a

1434
00:59:42,940 --> 00:59:41,240
Christian Church I've read lots of

1435
00:59:44,290 --> 00:59:42,950
examples of the he's preaching and he

1436
00:59:46,670 --> 00:59:44,300
knows he doesn't believe what he's

1437
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:46,680
preaching well how can stop

1438
00:59:52,970 --> 00:59:50,010
you know how can he lose what he has so

1439
00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:52,980
he just keeps going yeah yeah great so

1440
00:59:58,300 --> 00:59:55,800
what a real schism everyone needs to

1441
01:00:03,770 --> 00:59:58,310
move countries every now and then just

1442
01:00:06,740 --> 01:00:03,780
some fresh perspective yeah yeah

1443
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:06,750
are you staying uh and Sweden for a

1444
01:00:12,260 --> 01:00:09,690
while yeah I'll probably be here till at

1445
01:00:15,790 --> 01:00:12,270
least September maybe October maybe the

1446
01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:19,130
zero plan I mean the same position I was

1447
01:00:22,730 --> 01:00:21,030
last year I had no plans and everyone

1448
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:22,740
kept asking me and I said something will

1449
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:24,810
come and then just as they left somebody

1450
01:00:30,380 --> 01:00:27,330
offered me a six-month house-sitting gig

1451
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:30,390
in the beefer I don't know just how

1452
01:00:36,650 --> 01:00:32,610
something but villa sitting so that must

1453
01:00:39,220 --> 01:00:36,660
be very nice yeah we tend to make videos

1454
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:39,230
yes and do some pleasure for debunking

1455
01:00:43,490 --> 01:00:41,490
did do you have anything planned in the

1456
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:43,500
future for like debunking type things or

1457
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:49,110
more videos Wow I honestly feel that I

1458
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:52,640
exhausted it mmm may I say I had my I

1459
01:00:56,900 --> 01:00:55,170
wanted to share what I had and maybe

1460
01:01:00,350 --> 01:00:56,910
help a few people but I think my prime

1461
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:00,360
motivation was to get my head clear of

1462
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:02,250
what I'd got and to experiment with

1463
01:01:05,180 --> 01:01:03,930
video making and I got a lot out of that

1464
01:01:08,180 --> 01:01:05,190
I was never comfortable talking on

1465
01:01:09,740 --> 01:01:08,190
camera and it's kind of fun you know it

1466
01:01:12,350 --> 01:01:09,750
was an experience but once I got to the

1467
01:01:13,790 --> 01:01:12,360
end of it I would wake up every day and

1468
01:01:18,790 --> 01:01:13,800
I've got to make this video this video

1469
01:01:21,860 --> 01:01:18,800
this video very assess almost by that

1470
01:01:23,750 --> 01:01:21,870
creative spirit and that desire and then

1471
01:01:25,070 --> 01:01:23,760
one day I woke up and I had two videos

1472
01:01:27,650 --> 01:01:25,080
left to make which were going to be

1473
01:01:30,890 --> 01:01:27,660
perhaps some of my best ones I just

1474
01:01:32,330 --> 01:01:30,900
thought I'm doing without now and I

1475
01:01:34,970 --> 01:01:32,340
never made them I had the script written

1476
01:01:38,230 --> 01:01:34,980
now I had the sideshow and I didn't

1477
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:38,240
bother and I feel but I was really happy

1478
01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:41,010
for three days of oh yeah I'm done with

1479
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:43,260
that now and I was glad because there

1480
01:01:46,850 --> 01:01:44,610
was a stage there I thought I'll give

1481
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:46,860
one month to it and then it became two

1482
01:01:51,830 --> 01:01:49,170
months and three Messiah it was so

1483
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,840
all-consuming is this ever gonna end I

1484
01:01:57,740 --> 01:01:54,240
don't want to I didn't want to be a guy

1485
01:01:59,150 --> 01:01:57,750
who dedicated his life to that so it was

1486
01:02:00,170 --> 01:01:59,160
so nice to wake up that day and just

1487
01:02:05,650 --> 01:02:00,180
play

1488
01:02:09,069 --> 01:02:05,660
now maybe I should get that

1489
01:02:11,450 --> 01:02:09,079
you know I would start making videos

1490
01:02:13,970 --> 01:02:11,460
more videos and I think are really good

1491
01:02:14,510 --> 01:02:13,980
yeah this podcast thing is new to me as

1492
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:14,520
well

1493
01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:17,280
it's like episode 14 I thank you yeah

1494
01:02:20,420 --> 01:02:18,569
I'm an interesting in you and meeting

1495
01:02:23,150 --> 01:02:20,430
new people it's great just talking to

1496
01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:23,160
people oh great yeah I mean your videos

1497
01:02:27,980 --> 01:02:25,950
do because you're such a big name and I

1498
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:27,990
mainly know about flats so you're a huge

1499
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:30,000
name in flat earth but nobody goes to

1500
01:02:33,290 --> 01:02:31,770
I'm not saying I don't wanna say nobody

1501
01:02:34,130 --> 01:02:33,300
goes to Mack the bank but a lot of

1502
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:34,140
people don't

1503
01:02:40,330 --> 01:02:38,130
yeah how many of you is a third thing if

1504
01:02:42,370 --> 01:02:40,340
you should get way more than I do

1505
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:42,380
[Laughter]

1506
01:02:48,290 --> 01:02:46,890
yeah it'll it'll take off I mean I guess

1507
01:02:56,660 --> 01:02:48,300
you just need to insult people more

1508
01:02:59,329 --> 01:02:56,670
often all right yeah no yeah I'm more or

1509
01:03:02,569 --> 01:02:59,339
less just in the last few weeks I felt a

1510
01:03:05,359 --> 01:03:02,579
little bit of a draw towards flatter but

1511
01:03:07,789 --> 01:03:05,369
um - maybe like oh maybe I'll just get

1512
01:03:09,410 --> 01:03:07,799
involved in one more little thing it's

1513
01:03:11,690 --> 01:03:09,420
just when you think you're and they pull

1514
01:03:13,460 --> 01:03:11,700
you back in yeah

1515
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,470
so hope not I don't want to be like that

1516
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:15,599
again and I just check-in I check in on

1517
01:03:21,650 --> 01:03:19,440
meta bone but the desire to really get

1518
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:21,660
stuck into us I think I've done what

1519
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:23,490
what market I do to be honest I put out

1520
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:25,710
like 200 videos in three months and I

1521
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,690
don't know what else I could do have I

1522
01:03:33,260 --> 01:03:29,760
did the horizon o matic the straight leg

1523
01:03:35,359 --> 01:03:33,270
straight edge a lot of eye level doesn't

1524
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:35,369
nice the horizon doesn't rise to higher

1525
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:37,170
levels third on mine there's not a lot

1526
01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:40,730
else I can I can do from what I heard

1527
01:03:47,690 --> 01:03:46,020
those loser people are are you gonna go

1528
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:47,700
to explain it better okay if I could

1529
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:49,440
just explain it a little bit better than

1530
01:03:53,809 --> 01:03:51,930
ya dildo get it was my fault

1531
01:03:56,270 --> 01:03:53,819
my whole thing was I just want to

1532
01:03:58,130 --> 01:03:56,280
explain it as simply as possible and it

1533
01:04:00,079 --> 01:03:58,140
still didn't work so I don't know what I

1534
01:04:01,430 --> 01:04:00,089
can do B probably right maybe there's

1535
01:04:04,270 --> 01:04:01,440
just like I'll just try and get I'll

1536
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:04,280
just try and reach this one person yes

1537
01:04:09,020 --> 01:04:06,240
even even simpler

1538
01:04:10,819 --> 01:04:09,030
all right Rory well this has been a very

1539
01:04:11,850 --> 01:04:10,829
interesting discussion thank you very

1540
01:04:14,010 --> 01:04:11,860
much for doing it

1541
01:04:16,370 --> 01:04:14,020
all right good luck with your editing